Hello there! This is where we will have the discussion forum on Friday!
Rules:
1. Post your discussion point in this format. Ex. Mike T Discussion Point: _______________. Remember--keep it to 1-2 sentences maximum. It could be a thought provoking question, a statement or opinion. All of the above need to sound incredibly educational and intelligent.
2. After you have posted your point, then you need to post on everyone else's. Now remember, make sure that we know who you are when you are posting! If we don't know, then I cannot grade you and it might frighten some people due to the uncertainty--don't be that person!
3. Responses to posts need to be appropriate and educational as well. Keep them to 1-2 sentences maximum as well.
Sample Post:
Ms Lanese's Sample Discussion Point: I believe that Dante and Virgil's relationship has reached a different plateau. Though Dante still acknowledges Virgil respectfully with names such as "teacher," ever since Virgil asked for the cord, there is a mutual reliance and partnership developing with one another.
Psuedonym: James Pranco's Response to Ms L's Point: I cant quite determine whether Dante is being tested by Virgil when he asks for the cord, but I do agree that there is development between the two.
Psuedonym: Mariah Scary's Response to Ms. L's Post: Well, how interesting it is that you mentioned Virgil testing Dante, because that crossed my mind as well. I believe that Dante is being tested by Virgil to see if he is strong enough to make it through the hardest part of the journey.
Okay you see--not only can you respond to a person's comment, but also build off the other comments for that post as well.
I think this will go well! So remember post your point as well as on each classmates point! Be respectful, affirm one another and show off your intellect!
Best of luck with the discussion board! I cannot wait to see how this evolves!
Ms Lanese
Where it says post a comment--this is where you post your points!
ReplyDeleteThe punishments of the Panderers and Seducers are that they are endlessly walking fast and being lashed by horned demons because they had people serve for them for a bad purpose, so in turn, they are now being driven. The demons symbolize the Panderers and Seducers and their evil nature on earth during the time in which they lived. What other punishment may be appropriate for the Panderers and Seducers?
ReplyDeleteThe Flatterers have the punishment of being sunk in the putrid excretement. They are sunk due to how much they falsley flattered others during their lifetime. Do you think this punishment is fair? What else could be another appropriate punishment?
Dante again points out two people he has met before in this circle, Venedico Caccianimico and Alessio Interminei of Lucca. Do you think Dante is happy to see these people in Hell? Or feels sorry for them?
ReplyDeleteAs we read canto 18 we can see that the punishments are becoming more descriptive and harsh. After they come upon the two "pouches" or pits, Virgil can see that Dante is disgusted by what he sees. Virgil tells Dante to shift his eyes somewhere else so he does not have to look at the crude sight.Do you think virgil has taken a deeper role in Dantes life?
ReplyDeleteVirgil has definatly taken a deeper role with Dante. However, I think because of this he is worsening in his ability to be a guide. He should have Dante see and understand Hell completely, this is what his job his. I like how they are becoming "friends" in a way but it might let his guide skills become rusty. I'm afriad something bad might happen to Dante because Virgil is becoming to close to him.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Bridget Salvetti & Corey: Virgil has taken a deeper role in Dante's life because it is a more casual, friendly, and less formal relationship between them than it was in the beginning. They are now becoming closer to each other, even though Virgil still remains a guide to Dante - the relationship is becoming more like a friendship and less like a formal one.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Becca: I believe that Dante feels sorry for the people he sees in Hell, because he is watching them go through such cruel and gruesome punishments.
The circles of Hell contain groups of people whose actions resemble those of some today. Has the punishments,especially those of canto 18, caused you to reflect on the decisions you make in your life and those consequences?
ReplyDeleteresponse to corey: I dont think virgil is becoming a bad leder, I just think he is letting Dante take more control of HIS journey through hell. Virgil is just there to bring him through the right areas of hell, and to help or explain when Dnate needs it.
ReplyDeleteThe people in the first pouch are the panderers and Seducers. These people took advantage of women and manipulated the people around them. Their punishment is running around in one of the small pits and when the get to the edge of the wall, they are whipped but demons. Do you think this is a fitting punishment for what they have done to the people when they were alive? What do you think Dante feels about these people?
Also in the Second pouch, it is those people Who were flatterers, or those who were vain. Their punishment is disgusting. Do you think because Virgil leads Dante away from it quickly, does virgil think that Dante is still weak, or not used to the horrors of hell?
ReplyDeleteresponce to bella: i think this is a fitting punishment becouse in life they made people jump to there will and now in death they are forced agianst there will
ReplyDeleteResponse to Bella: I feel that it is a good punishment because they do deserve to be whipped but I think that a more fitting punishment may be to have them taken advantage of the way they took advantage of those women. If I were Dante i would feel very scared.
ReplyDeleteAs we proceed into the eighth circle of hell, divided into those pouches, i feel as if the punishments and sins will keep getting worse and worse. What do you think the next sins will be and what do you think their punishments will be?
response to bella:........AGIAN: i think that virgil leads Dante away becouse he is afraid that Dante will faint and delay there Journey
ReplyDeleteif you deceive people and take control over women, why are they being whipped? i believe that there is a more fitting punishment to that. like being taken advantage of? wheres the creativity...?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Bella's second post: I think that Virgil cares about Dante greatly and that he knows that Dante swooned a lot in the beginning and so I think he is just being cautious of what Dante's reaction may be, I also feel that Virgil himself may be disgusted by the punishment as well.
ReplyDeleteThe circles get worse and worse the further we go down. Do you think that being a flatterer and vain deserves a place below suicide in hell? or is this to harsh a punishment?
ReplyDeleteTo matt's ^ Yes i think being Vain is below suicides in hell and not to much of a punishment because when youre vain your loving yourself more than anything else, especially God.
ReplyDeleteLindsay's: No idea, Possibly getting closer to Lucifer, so punishments may be a bit more gruesome. Even thought theyre pretty bad already.
response to Zach:i disagree with Zach , the punishment has to be painfull and gory they cant just have them be confused with clever wordplay. there needs to be a physical aspect to the punishment ie getting whipped.
ReplyDeleteWhats the meaning of the the circles? Is it esential for there to be so many?
ReplyDeleteresponse to lindsay: i think that no matter the sin, the punishments will keep getting gruesome and more gruesome, like you said. however i do believe that the debocle that is to ensue for Virgil and Dante will be terrible. they will encounter the insane. theymight not make it out alive.
ReplyDeleteI agree with matt's response to Zach's question. And to alex, there are so many circles because Dante is showing us all the sins that he thinks would put people in hell.
ReplyDeleteDid you just ask that question? Alex I take it you have not read, the purpose of the circles is to divide up the bad people in sections. the earlier circles are for people who aren't so bad, and the later circles are for the most evil of people.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Matt; People in hell are obviously there for a reason. I don't think it's too harsh a punishment because they are getting what they deserve for what they did in the real world. However regarding the people Dante specifically mentions, such as Jacopo, they were probably once a big part of his life for him to mention them, but for him to mention them being in the deeper circles of hell, the must have wronged Dante in some way shape or form.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Lindsay: in my oppinion the sins seem pretty random as to how bad they are suppose to be. with this in mind i do not know what the next circle will be. it could be making mean faces or canibals. who knows?
ReplyDeletein response to Bella i think that Virgil thinks that Dante is not used to the horrors of hell.
ReplyDeletelol geez anthony..
ReplyDeleteanyways as brandon mentioned Dante keeps running into people that he reconizes, why do you think Dante is or isnt suprised to see these people in hell? Do you think Dante is putting these people here for an bvious reason?
response to matt: like bella said, it all has to do with God. the prostitutes treated their bodies against the way God intended,the suicides ended their lives earlier than God wanted them to, etc.so in Dante's version of Hell, the devil punishes you for going against God.
ReplyDeleteResponse to alex:i think the purpose of the circles is to keep the sinners from mingling with each other. this would make it harder to punish them and some might even be able to switch into easier punishments.
ReplyDeleteAlex That I agree with, especially earlier on when Dante gave his belt to Virgil who threw it into the dark river with the Harry Potter river creatures.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Alex: There are so many circles due to the fact that there are so many sins in the world. The significance of each circle is the punishment for the crime, each punishment made special for the particular sin commited.
ReplyDeleteInresponse to Alex's response about bella: Dante is definitely used to hell because you don't hear about him fainting anymore. he may be scared still, but not to the point anymore where he faints again
ReplyDeleteresponse to alex: really?
ReplyDeleteWill it be worth it to Dante that he is going through hell just to find a girl that he loves...? Because she clearly doesn't love him back.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Alex: The circles are there for a symbolic reason. I think they are called circles because cirlces are round, so they have no end, therefore, suffering in these circles are eternal...
ReplyDeleteWhy is the procession of frauds compared to the crowds at the Jubilee?
ReplyDeletehuh? ^
ReplyDeleteResponse to Brandon: I agree to the fact that maybe she does not love him, but there is always the saying to follow your heart, and i believe that maybe that is what he is doing.
ReplyDeleteWill Dante make it through this whole hell and find Beatriz or will he die later on into hell.
ReplyDeleteBrandon: in the book The girl Dante loves IS clearly in love with him. while its true that she is not in love with him as much in real life Dante also never went through hell in real life. this book is Fiction.
ReplyDeleteTheRagingRiver is Mark by the way.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Tyler: I am not quite sure of what you are asking. Can you please elaborate?
ReplyDeleteAs we go into the eight circle with the seducers and panders in the first pouch the circles will worsen but so far wich circle do you believe has been the most grusome and unpleasent to read?
ReplyDeleteresponse to brandon: from the text we read i can tell that she loves him back. honestly, who would be stupid enough to leave their family and travel through the dark depths of hell just to find a girl that might love him back?
ReplyDeleteTo tyler, yes I concur that the Jubilee can be contrasted to the frauds, in fact i think they will meet the Jabawokee and the bandersnatch on their long Odyssey thorugh this trecherous hell.
ReplyDeleteMatt: Ms. Lanese had mentioned that Dante and Beatrice had only met twice, with a 9 year span in between. Also, beatrice had married another man, which makes Dante slump into more of a depression
ReplyDeleteResponse to Matt: Umm Matt? We don't exactly know yet about how Beatrice feels yet...
ReplyDeleteRespose to Anthony: I am not too sure of what is to come hisway, but I hope that he will find Beatrice only because that is all he really is asking for.
ReplyDeleteRespose to Tyler: may you please explain your post?
ReplyDeletetyler: ?
ReplyDeleteAnthony: i think dante will make it through hell and find love. i am baseing my opinion solely on a possative outlook and really have no idea whats gonna happen, after all i havent read the entire book.
What do you think will be in the other 8 Pouches in this 8th circle of hell? Already were the Panderers and Seducers. Also the Flatterers.
ReplyDeleteresponse to darby: i believe the people who comitted suicide was pretty bad. having to be a tree, not moving, or talking, unless you get your arm ripped off. that would be my worst hell.
ReplyDeletehttp://theragingmark.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of the pouches?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Maggie Parker: After reading about the gruesome punishments so far in the Inferno, it makes me reflect on my sins and the consequences that could follow them.
ReplyDeleteCorey C Discussion Point: What I really like about Dante is that he is not biased. In the 16th canto, the 7th circle, he puts people in his book who he admires, yet sinned. In other book, he puts in who he hated that sinned as well. For example, he greatly admired Tegghiaio Al. I like how he does not "save" the people he likes, he has them punished as well.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Katelynn: I don't see how the demons scourging them is relevant to their actions. Maybe, the seducers could have their beauty taken away and forced to be unattractive for all eternity.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Justine B: I think the significance is that there are many different branches of one sin. A sin can be so various that Hell needed to create pouches to hold them all.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Corey: I definitely agree with Corey's statement. It's interesting how Dante places people that he admires in Hell, but he does not save them - they are still punished and he pities them.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Justine: I agree with Corey that the significance is that there are so many branches of one sin that Hell needs pouches to hold them all.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Maggie: I think that it is directly relevant to their sin. Because of how they treated people, they basically "whipped" them in a way. The seducers could only hurt their subjects, just as Hell and only hurt the seducers.
ReplyDeleteLyndon Ondrick's Discussion point: Dante and virgil enter the Eigth circle with the Panderers and the Seducers. They see in the first pit people running from wall to wall continuously and the rcognize people they know
ReplyDeleteResponse to Corey: I agree, everyone has sinned at one point or another in their life. Dante realizes that and he doesn't let his friendships get in the way.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Corey: I agree with you on that point, i think that it is fair for them to get whipped because of how they treated people in their lifetime
ReplyDeleteAs we go farther and farther into hell and we start to see many gruesome punishments, do you think that Dante and Virgil will start to grow closer together from these expiereinces?
ReplyDeleteresponse to Justine: I definitly agree with Corey and Katelynn. Sins vary by degree and there are many types of fraud.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Lyndon: I find it really quite unique that Dante uses so many people he knows. If you think about it, most readers may have never heard of these people. Dante wants to convey a certain message, but he cannot if he uses people the reader doesn't know about.
ReplyDeleteJustine Dicussion Point: In canto 18 the seducers are being punished by demons with horns while running back and forth being whipped.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Lyndon: It's also a continous theme that has repeated over the course of the text - Dante incorporates people he knows, admires/dislikes in the text.
ReplyDeleteGreg G Discussion Point: There is not much in the way anymore of "formalities." Yes, i think that ever since Virgil asked Dante for that cord, there has been a more relaxed, friendship type excursion, rather than just, "Master and leader" all the time. Do you think Dante and Virgil's relationship will stay the same, or can you predict a future point that will eventually tear them apart?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Joe L: Unfortunatly, I think they will. I think Dante is going to be in a dangerous situation in one of these circles because of their freindship. I'm afriad that Virgil might let his relationship get in the way of protecting Dante from the demons of Hell.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Justine: The punishment that they recieve is almost the same as the other circles, the same intensity and equally gruesome.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Greg: I think that as time goes on that their relashionship will not be torn apart, but they will grow closer and closer throug each horrible expireince
ReplyDeleteResponse to Joe (imissyoumslanese): I think that Dante and Virgil's friendship will grow and become closer, because Dante needs Virgil throughout this journey. They are constantly seeing such gruesome things, and Virgil is constantly there for Dante through all of this which will make them grow closer.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Greg: As I have been saying, something bad is going to happen because of Dante and Virgils relationship. It may tear them apart because a demon or monster may trick the Poets by using their naiveness simply because they are friendly to eachother.
ReplyDeleteA response to Joseph my Broseph. I agree that they will get closer. As the two descend deeper into the fiery abyss, Virgil's reach over the situation get's slightly less protective. Dante is taking a bigger role in the ongoing journey with less of a "Master" feel, and more as equals.
ReplyDeleteResponse to imissyoumslanese(joe): I definitly think that Virgil and Dante will grow closer. Virgil has already started to protect him from some of the gruesomeness, such as when he had him shield his eyes from the horror.
ReplyDeleteIn responce to Corey: I agree with you in some aspects in your point, but he also leaves a majority of the interpretation of the message to the reader.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Greg: I think that since Dante and Virgil's friendship is becoming less formal, they will become more closer which might hinder Virgil's ability to protect Dante - this might cause something to tear them apart in the end.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Justine: I concur because that is what happened in the book
ReplyDeleteResponse to Greg: That was a great discussion point, I think that there wont be an event that will tear them apart because they are very good friends and they will not seperate.
ReplyDeleteResponse to MikeTass: I completely agree with Mike. Virgil is definatly less protective. However, Dante has not become increasingly more outgoing. He is still scared, which is why Virgil needs to step up and help him.
ReplyDeleteShannon Tighe - Why do you think Dante decided to include the Panderers and the Seducers together in the same circle of hell?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Lyndon: Yes, it is very common that Dante keeps incorporating people he knows. In the first pouch, the people running around from side to side are just another example of the horrors Dante is experiencing.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Joe: I think that will stay together and continue to be friends no matter how evil things become. Since they are such good friends they will not seperate just because of a circle.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Lyndon: I disagree because they are to close. I say wait till Dante has truly died (if he is not already dead) and then become friend. If you think about it, do you want to have your "friend" be your tour guide of the African Safari? He might get you close to a lion to be cool, and then you get slaughtered...bad bad bad bad bad bad bad
ReplyDeleteResponse to Shannon: I think that Dante incorporated them into the same circle because they have done similar sins. The difference is gender.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Mike's point - Virgil is less of a "master" now.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Shannon: I think that Dante chose to include both of these in the same circle because they have made similar sins in their lifetime. The only difference between the Panderers and Seducers is that Panderers were pimps, and Seducers were prostitutes.
response to Katelynn: I think that oth of the punishments to these people is pretty fair because what they did on earth was pretty bad so they deserve to be punished in the worst possible way. I really think that these are very appropriate and i wouludnt really change any of them.
ReplyDelete(In response to Katie's point all the way at the top)
ReplyDeleteVery good point! I also pondered the thought of having a different punishment for the Flatteres, but i think that their punishment is actually very appropriate. Think about it. If they flattered others in a bad way for all their life, and drownded others in, if you will, "stinky lies," then why not have them be punished just the same while in Hell? It makes sense, and i like your point Katie
response to Becca: I think that he is happy to see them because of the punishment to them. The people he has put in Hell have been punished and he likes that they are being punished.
ReplyDeleteZachary L Brown discussion point: The descriptions of this circle are very intense like most of the cantos.if you were dante or virgil, what one phrase or word would you use to signify the whole circle from their point of view?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Maggie: Gender is directly involved with this book. You don't see nearly as many women as you do men. I actually believe Dante insinuates man sins more than woman. Idk though
ReplyDeleteResponse to Greg: I think that they will not be torn apart because originally it was a very formal relationship and they easily got past that. I believe that VIrgil will continue to help Dante to the best of his ability.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Shannon: I think that dante puts these people together becasue when they were on the earth, they made pretty much the same types of sins and they both didnt use their bodies in the way God intended
ReplyDeleteA post to my fellow esteemed classmates...
ReplyDeletehello! i have an interesting point to discuss with you all. i have noticed that in the first 16 Cantos, whenever the poets descended, they would descend "To the right." Yet, since the flight on geryon, they have always gone to the left. Interesting, no? This kinda gives that feeling of spiraling downward, then for whatever reason, switching directions. What could it mean! what is running through Dante's mind! Which direction will they turn next! only time will tell in these bowels of antiquity...
Response to Shannon: I think he put them there because he knew people that were like that in real life and they fit into that category,nthere could have been twompeople that were each of them and he put trhem in that circle to get them punished for that
ReplyDeleteAUSTIN GOIS DISCUSSION POINT (BECAUSE BECCA FELT LIKE RUSHING ME) - Do you think that Dante and Virgil will return to the Dark Forest if/after they reach the end of Hell?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Zach the L?: I would definaty say "ghoulish and sinister"
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin Gois: I don't think so. I think Dante is dead, and that he will continue onto purgatory, and from their reach heaven. In lieu, the Divine Comedy.
ReplyDelete(In response to Maggie)
ReplyDeleteIlike your discussion point in the fact that you related the punishments to our personal lives. I think that whatever we do in real life will somehow reflect some punishments that are portrayed in Hell, so Iagree in the fact that we are punsihed in real life, but not to the extent that Dante portrayed Hell as. Overall i like your discussion point Maggie
Response to Zachary L Brown: If I were Dante,I would probably sum up the circle as morbid. Each circle and punishment keeps getting worse and worse. Most of it is scary and disgusting.
ReplyDeleteResponse to maggie: After reading this canto and all the previous ones, it does make me think a little more of my actions because alot of the punishments that i see in Hell do not look fun at all and i would much rather be in heaven
ReplyDeleteIn the eighth layer of hell called Malebolge, there is the first pouch where the Seducers and Panderers are punished. There they are whipped and scorged by demons as they come inot their reach after running around to avoid them. Do you think that the punishment in this pouch is in some way related to the punishment Jesus christ suffered before He was crucified on the cross? Is there a reason for the similarity, if there is one?
ReplyDeleteIn responce to Austin: I personally think they will not reach the end of the forest, I think they will continue the journey to purgatory.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin: (SHE DIDN'T RUSH YOU)I think that they will go back to the dark forest after. It is the only way back to the way they went down into hell so they have to go back through.
ReplyDeleteJ Swagger is Zack S
ReplyDeleteResponse to Joey: I agree with Joe completely. Even though this is completely fictional (in the aspects of what is in Hell) it makes me think about my actions, probably something Dante wanted us to think about.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin: i dont think that they will return to the wood. i think that Dante will either go straight to heaven bcause of the divine intervention that we have seen.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Zach: I would sum it up as disgusting, because the punishment of the Flatterers being sunk in excretment was disgusting.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin: That's an interesting point! Maybe they will go there at the end of their journey, and we will find out why Dante was there in the first place - if he was alive, dead, or in purgatory.
Response to J Swagger: Cool name man
ReplyDeleteThis is to you Becca. He does see more people in which he recognizes. I believe that he is both happy and feels pity towards those. He puts them in hell for his own personal reasons, maybe out of anger, or out of respect. Some of these are clear, while others we really need to go in depth to see Dante's motives.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Katey's( Up top): I do not think that the punishment does not make sense in any sort of way. Why do the flatterers have to be sunk? Anybody know?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Mike: I agree in the fact that is seems they are descending downward, as if in a slope to the center of Hell. Quite interesting that you noticed the different directions.Maybe it will eventually be explained
ReplyDelete@Joey: But this is only Dantes interpretation on Hell andmay or may not be true, he could have been taken to Hell or had a dream or just wanted to write a story so its a complete gamble on what he says is true
ReplyDeleteIn responce to J Swagger: I don't think there is a connection because Jesus died for our sins to open thet Gates of Heaven. These Seducers and Panderer are being punished for their adultery, and such.
ReplyDeleteResponse to MikeTass: I think Dante only wanted to show us who deserves to go into this circle or that circle. Yes he may have has some disrespect for some of his characters, but he wanted to give a "real life" example for his "fake Hell"
ReplyDelete(Inresponse to J Swagger, Zack Slepchuk)
ReplyDeleteI really like your observation in your discussion point! I find the similarity astonishing! I definitely think dante somehow related this punishment to the suffering of Jesus Christ, due to the time period. I like your observation J Swagger1
@lyndon: the flatterers are probably sinking because they attmept to use their words to make themselves higher in another persons life so their punishment would be going down instead of up
ReplyDeleteResponse to Bridget: I think that in the begining their relationship mimicked a teachers relationship to his student. Now as they have been traveling through the layers of hell their relationship has developed into more of a bond of friendship.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Mike: This could foreshadow a change in plot or something important to come in the next cantos.
ReplyDeleteResponse to J Swagger (Zack S): This is in a way like the punishment of Christ because Christ was whipped with a scourge - so nbow in Hell they are experiencing the pain Christ beared.
Austin: You are completely right. probably none of these things are real, but it still makes you think and think about what hell really is like.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Bridget: I definetly think that Virgil has taken a deeper role in Dante's life. he knows when Dante is very sad by what he sees so he protects him by telling him to look another way so he does not see the sadness.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Katelynn: Woah!!!!!!! Kate that is pretty deep...this all relates to Christ. That is something I never though about before. Holy cow...I agree with you all the way.
ReplyDeleteResponse to JSwagger(Zack): Hmm interesting point, however, I don't think the punishments are relatable in the fact that Jesus experienced the scourging to save us. The panderers and seducers are experiencing this due to their own actions. Hmm well maybe JEsus was scourged because of our actions.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Joe: Yeah.
ReplyDelete@ katie: for the Panderers and Seducers, I think a fitting punishment would be for them to suffer the same fate as their victims, such as being taken advantage of by others in a intimate way. As for the Flatterers, I think the filth is a good punishment because when you flatter someone, you are putting on a fake face, that just makes everything impure and dirty.
ReplyDelete(In respionse to imissyoumslanese,Joe)
ReplyDeleteI definitley think they will grow closer together after experiencing all the different gruesome punishments. Itall makes sense. How would they not grow closer together? What would make them breakapart? I like your thought provoking question Joe!
@corey: this definilty doesnt relate to christ if they are including GREEK mythlogical people such as Achilles.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Lyndon: The flatterers are sunk due to the amount of false flatteries in their lifetime, which make sense but the punishment of sinking in excretment doesn't make sense. What could be an alternative punishment?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin: I think that would be a good ending if they ended back at the forest. Maybe Dante was having a glimpse of what he could endure or it was like a dream state. Whatever happens, were going to find out soon.
ReplyDeleteIn response to The L is for Lamothe: I think the one word I would use is Hell. Because of where they areright now and the horribleness of it.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Goosten: Hey Austin, Dante is simple involving all of what people created, which is what God created. So technically, the Greek Gods "work for Christ."
ReplyDelete@Greg: Maybe something in the future will happen as Virgil will keep having trouble. Dante nmay become frustrated and a fight may insue
ReplyDeleteresponse to Big Brown: Hell
ReplyDeleteResponse to Corey which was a response to mine which was a response to Beccas...
ReplyDeleteI wasnt saying that it was a sign of disrespect, but only a means of channeling his emotions through his writing. We can tell that he places people in his hell because of his real life (Whether it be political differences, etc.) Even if their sins dont directly correspond with them. He just places them in as a sort of retaliation that will withstand the ages.
Response to J Swagger: That would make a good punishment for the Seducers! It makes complete sense - they will be taken advantage of intimately as they took advantage of others. In fact, the Secuders are kind of like the Useres because they used people.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Becca: I think that Dante feels sorry for them but he put them there for a reason. Dante has expressed his feelings for them by which circle they are in.
ReplyDelete(In response to Mike Tass)
ReplyDeleteA very interesting, thought provoking discussion topic! I think they are spiraling downward, as if descending deeper and deeper into the layers of Hell, because thats what they're doing! Dante may switch directions, but it all depends on where they are going next. I like your point Mike!
In response to Greg I think that during their journey through hell there will come a time that Virgil will not be able to continue traveling with Dante. However I do not think that it will be because of their relationship it will because Virgil will lead Dante to someone who has more knowledge and will be a better guide to Dante than Virgil.
ReplyDelete@Corey: but in their beliefes there isnt one God which is the Christian God as their gods reign supreme and they dont recognize Christ as anything to them
ReplyDeleteIn response to:
ReplyDeleteKatey- For the Panders and Seducers I do think it is a fair punishment and I agree with how they are whipped because of what they did in their "earth life". I think the Flatterers punishment is to closely related to those who were in wars and such.
Bridget- Yes, I do think that Virgil has taken a deeper role in Dante's life. Now he is not only Dante's guide but he is a role model as well because Dante is in a unknown world.
Corey- I agree with you. It is kind of interesting how Dante even puts people he admires in Hell.
Maggie- In a way, yes the punishments have caused me to reflect on the decisions i have made in my life. Now that you see what really happens in Hell for the things you have done you get scared and regret you own decisions.
Justine- The significance of the pouches is like mini-layers inside the 8th layer. Showing that there are different ways you could have made that certain sin.
In Response to J Swagger: I think that there is a similarity to Jesus' punishment befor he was crucified. when jesus died he descended into hell to talk to the Devil before going up to heaven.
ReplyDeleteIn responce to Lyndon: The filth and excretement represents the words they produced.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Mike who was a response to me who was a response to mike which was a response to Becca:
ReplyDeleteDante has every logical reason to place those people there though. Those people did sin as the requirements were to be in that circle. You can't cheat Hell Mike, and Dante certaintly cannot either. They deserve to be there, even though he knows them. :p
Corey Evan discussion point: Hey everyone...starting a new discussion here. Does anyone find it weird how no monster has tried to inflict pain on Dante yet. Oviously nobody wants him there, yet he has technically been in no real danger. Is this really Hell? Or a dream where he cannot be hurt by his own imagination??
ReplyDeleteResponse to Bridget: I agree. Virgil has definitly taken a deeper role in Dante's life. It's kinda funny how they are friends now and Virgil seems almost protective of Dante.
ReplyDelete@Justine: epic way to put it into perspective
ReplyDelete@ DJ Mikey T: I also find it interestind that they always go to the right, maybe that has to do with Jesus being at the right hand of God, or maybe because back then, left handed people were thought be be evil? Maybe there turn to the left means that they are entering something evil, like the left hand!
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin: Nice use of epic.
ReplyDeleteResponse to jswagger(slepchuk) I really dont know if it is suppose to represent Christ and His punishements, but it really makes sense because all these people are in Hell becasue they did not believe in God or Jesus so in a way it does represent this because they are all expireiencing the pain of being awat from God and also expireiceing the pain if not more pain that Christ went through for everyone including the people in hell
ReplyDelete(In response to Lyndon)
ReplyDeleteYes, it is unfortunate that they see people they know, right? I like your observation. Iwonder what Dante and Virgil are thinking when they see people they know? I like it Lyndon.
Respone to mparks: It definetly has made me change my life for the better because if I die and Hell is real, I could possible end up in one of those layers. I hope that it is helping me in real life.
ReplyDeleteIn responce to Becca's Original Post up top: I believe that he did want to encounter them but he wanted to use them to express an idea or message.
ReplyDeleteZach Slepchuk...I like it, I like it.
ReplyDeleteDiscussion point(jeanette)- We have now entered lower hell.Do you see a change in the demons already? Is hell becoming more or less like the mental image you had before reading The Inferno?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Corey which was a response to me which was a response to Coreys which was a response to me again which was a response to Beccas.
ReplyDeleteThe sins which the "Commited" are corresponding to their punnishments. But ive also realized with a slight amount help from the notes in my book, that Dante's recollection of their sins is the only record of some of these people doing this in history. For example, the three florencians we witnessed in Canto 16, have never, in any sources, been acquited with being "Violent against nature." So why, dearest Corey, does Dante perhaps make these sins up about those who he admired?
Response to Corey: I really like your point. Maybe the whole thing is a dream, or he could just be anonymously protected from God, or maybe Virgil was sent from Heaven and has been protecting him the whole time.
ReplyDeleteIn response to:
ReplyDeleteLyndon- Awesome post Lyndon, very desprictive.
Joe- Yes, I do think Dante and Virgil will start to grow closer because it seems that the deeper they go into Hell the closer they will become.
(In response to Becca)
ReplyDeleteI think Dante is somewhat excited to see some of the people he know, especially from his native Italy. He may feel sorry for them but, he put them there, so maybe he doesnt at the same time. Very good Becca!
response to joe mike's bro: I think that dante and virg will break that teacher-student relationship and more man to man brst firends type of relationship
ReplyDeleteMark B.'s Discussion: How close do you think that Dante and Virgil have gotten since the beginning?
ReplyDeleteto discuss more about "Dante's Inferno". Go to http://theragingmark.blogspot.com/ to continue the conversation
ReplyDeletePeriod 5 English, I posted a couple of questions on my blog---check it out! #hellafresh
ReplyDeletehttp://bgeiger6.blogspot.com/
Response To miketass: I do not know what is going through Dante's head at this point why he is all of a sudden going left. Could it be the severity of the punishments that he has seen?
ReplyDeleteResponse to Jeanette: Hell id definetly in a different perspective for me after reading this book. Before Hell was just a big black hole with sad people, but now there is different parts of Hell i would have never thought of.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Katelyn:I think the punishments are fitting. However the Seducers and Panderers could be forced to do hard laber like cuting anc carying wood to stoke a fire that must burn for eternity. The Flatterers could be plagued by boils or some other flesh scaring disesas so that they may be lessened in apearance which in life they comented falsly to others about.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Jeanette: Hell is definitely differ than what I had imagined it to be before reading. I imagined it as fiery and red with constant reminder of what you have to endure for all eternity. It makes much more sense now that everyone is punished for the sins they committed.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Corey: Oo very good point. It is likely that this could possibly be a dream or a wake up call to Dante to show him how his life could turn out. Dante hasn't been hurt by the demons yet because Virgil has been protecting him, possibly more than Dante is aware of.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Becca: I do not think Dante feels true pitty because he is the one who put them in hell and he views what they were in life and how they acted as sinfel. He felt pity on the suicides because they were driven to commit sin in their own death. However all the others in Hell comited were not driven to commit sin twordes others.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Bridget:I think Virgil has become a very important figure in Dante's life. Virgil is the one and only constant. Nomater where they go in Hell or what they encounter Dante knows Virgil will be there to protect and guide him.
ReplyDeleteresponse to Maggie: This has definantly caused me to reconsider some of the choices. The Flatterers are punishes because they falsely complemented people. I think that is a very minor thing to be so deep in hell for. and earlier in the book we encountered the opertunists. These are two sets of people I did not realy expect to encounter in hell. Although when taken to extremes I do understand why they are there.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Justine: Each pouch bears a coat of arms a color and an animal. The pouches represent for each their family or city. They wear them as a reminder of their lives and what shame they now bring in their death to their family or city.
Response to Corey: That is a good thing that Dante does. I think by punishing people he admires he shows that even good people do bad things. It also shows that no one is compleatly innocent. Even the unbaptized children are condemed and unable to go the Heaven. Dante's placement of people shows how harsh he is as a judge. I would not have goten on his bad side.
Response to Lyndon: This is a very dramatic and seemingly chaotic way to enter lov=wer hell. The compartments of the eigth layer makes it seem to be like a very origanized system of torturing the people. It is almost like a ptison with individual cells for those with different sins.
Response to Joe: Yes I think the deeper they get the closer they will get. Not only will they be spending more time together but the experiences they go through will help them bond and learn more about each other.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Justine(canto 18): The whips and horned demons make it seem more like hell.
Response to Greg: I agree that there may be issues arising in the future due to the relaxed nature of their relationship. It is good they can depend on one another and that they are getting a little closet but hell is not exactly the best place to try start a friendship, ther are more pressing matters to be dealt with.
Response to Shannon: I think they are both included in the same ditch because both take advantage of the weeknesses of others for self gain.They both are decieteful and greeedy to the point of hurting others to get ehat they want.
Response to Zachary L :Demonic Rule
Response to Mike (direction dillema): Wow you are observant I did not even notice that. It could symbolize the disruption and chaos of hell. People do everything left to right: read, write, ect. So mabey they first decentd left then begin decending right to show that nothing is common or normal in hell.
Response to Austin: I do not think that they will return to the forest. I think Virgil will return from where he came from and Dante will either be asgined to a layer of hell or put badk on the "right path" that he pefered to in the first canto.
Response to Zack S: I do not think the whippind is related to that of Christ becaus hell was already formed before the death of Christ on the cross.(canto 11, hell shook when Christ died which caused the rocks to fall at the transitions from one layer to another.)
Hey period 5 english, let's step our blogging game! Check out my blog for daily updates regarding Dante's Inferno! Feel free to write me a comment or simply "follow" me on my blog or my twitter--whichever you prefer! #Lezgooo
ReplyDeletehttp://bgeiger6.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/#!/bgeiger6
Response to:
ReplyDeleteGreg- Greg love your post it's very in depth. I agree that Dante and Virgil seem more relaxed around each other now. I feel for now their relationship will stay the same but I can predict that there will be a point in the future where the split, which will probably be when Dante leaves Hell.
Shannon- I think he put them in the same circle because it might be that their sins are closely related.
Zach L. Brown- I like you post Zach, makes you think. My word would be "eye-opener".
Mike- Very interesting and I loved how you worded your post. It's good you pointed out the spiraling thing because that's true and probably a big point Dante or Ms. Lanese wanted you to notice.
Austin- Sorry I rushed you Austin. Yes, i do think that Dante and Virgil will at some point return to the forest. This will probably be after they have gone through all the circles of Hell.
Zack S- Good post. That's really cool how you related the people's suffering to Christ's suffering. Yes I think in some way it is related because the people in Hell rejected God and Jesus and refused to believe he ever existed. Now they have two punishments, one for the sin they did on earth and the other is they have to go through the pain and torture Jesus went through for our sins.
Jeanette- In a way yes i do see a change. They are now becoming more like demons you'd expect in Hell, horned devil-creatures that take pleasure in your misfortune. Good job Jeanette. Awesome thinking. haha
Response to Becca In previous Cantos we have seen people placed in Hell that Dante admires and at one point we even saw him express anger at those in Hell for committing the sins that they did. I think that Dante does feel sorry for them and that he wrote them in to use as an example for people to warn them about how they could end up.
ReplyDeleteresponse to katelynn- The siners being punished by the demons really does not seem to be fitting for the seducers. THey have spent their lives focusing on their beauty, they should be punished by not looking bautiful at all
ReplyDeleteresponse to becca- I think Dante isn't surprised that these people he knows are in hell because he knows what they have done in their lives to get to hell.
response to corey- Thats an interesting idea. I think that you are right they may run into some trouble along the way if Virgil leaves all the guiding to Dante.
response to Maggie- I think that reading the story we can see that these people are most likely not resentful for what they did and that is why they are put so deep into hell.
response to Justine- I think the pouches are a way of breaking up one moral sin into levels of guilt. If they have not accepted that they have done wrong in their life they have a stronger punishment than those who accepted that they took a wrong turn.
response to Lyndon- The fact that Dante recognizes people he knows adds a lot to the story. we can learn a lot about what kinds of people dante encountered throughout his life.
response to Joe- Thats a good point, I do think that they will become closer and appriciate the time they have together.
response to Greg- I think you are right, something down the road could occur for them to break apart anything could happen in hell.
response to Shannon- I think he put them together because their sins are on the same level of wrong doing.
response to Zach Brown- It makes me think about what they are thinking at each step as they go farther into hell. I think the word I would choose would be haert breaking.
response to Mike- Very good observation, maybe soon Dante will reveal to us why he chose different paths for each poet to the center of hell.
response to Austin- I think that because we know they are going to a destination that they will soon reach it and maybe something will bring them back.
response to Zack Slepchuk- I think that The circumstance with Jesus was a little different. These people have spent their lives destroying what God gave them and Jesus was restoring lives. But it shows how even if you try to do something good someone can always hurt you.
response to Jeanette- I think that the images and ideas of hell have become more complex as we go further down. They have even made sub sections in one layer.
In response to Corey: I really like your second discussion point. It got me thinking and it made me wonder if the movie Inception is based off of the Inferno. Just like the characters in the movie descend through the levels of dreams, each one getting worse, Dante and Virgil descend through the layers of Hell.
ReplyDeleteResponse to EVERYONE: In the Inferno, we recognize too much of the Circles themselves instead of Dante and Virgil. Has anyone else noticed that as the Circles got worse and worse, Dante has been acting MUCH better?
ReplyDeleteI am TheRagingRiver
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jeanette: Reading the Inferno has changed my concept of hell completely. Before my idea of hell was a place undeground where if you sinned you would burn for all of eternity. It does seem more logical for the punsihments to reflect the sins that were committed.
ReplyDelete@ Becca: I think Dante is happy to see them in hell. Why would you just put people in hell, to be tortured if you did not have something against them. You would have to be one sick person to put a friend into hell.
ReplyDelete@ Bridget: I do think that Virgil has taken a deeper role in Dante's life, but not for the reason you posted. I think they have been becoming closer as they progressed in the book, like when Virgil trusted Dante to throw the cord down the cliff. That showed a bond being formed between the two, but Virgil shielding Dante's eyes from the horrors to me was not friendship, more of Virgil's own weakness to the situation and he wanted to make Dante afraid to make himself not seem so weak.
ReplyDelete@ Corey's first point: I agree with you on the not being bias part. I too like how he does not take sides on who sound be in hell and who should not. The only thing I do not like his how he could throw some people he admired in hell. I just find it disturbing how he can stand putting his ideals in a place like that.
ReplyDelete@ Maggie: That is a very interesting thought. It makes be think that if Dante's hell is real than, many people, including myself, need to rethink some decisions that will be made because hell is not a fun place, and i do not think some of those sins are worth getting punished in hell for all eternity.
ReplyDelete@ Justine: I think the significance of the pouches is to separate the different sinners from each other so they can be tortured in only one way. I also think that the pouches represent containment, as in the sense that the people in this layer all have used control over others to sin, so the pouches are now containing them or controlling them and preventing them from leaving.
ReplyDelete@ Lyndon: I think it is really cool how he uses people that he had met in his life. I think it adds a sense of human nature to this seemingly magic book and relates it to our lives. I do not like though is that he can put people into such punishment just because he did not like them. To me that is like if you made a blog about someone and having their reputation being destroyed. That would be considered to be bullying and would be a criminal offense, but in his time there were no laws against that.
ReplyDelete@ Joe Momma: I do think that they will become closer friends, but not necessarily because of the horrors they see. I think they will become closer because of what they do together, like when they rode Greyon down the cliff. That was a pretty crazy event and I think they will both remember that forever.
ReplyDelete@ Greg: That is a very mind blowing point my friend. I would like to think that they would remain friends until the end, but i then start to think that what is the end going to be? Will Dante have to leave and go back to Earth, or is Dante already dead, so they cant still hand out in the underworld? I just do not know full extension! I just dont know!
ReplyDelete@ Shannon: I think Dante put both the Seducers and the Panderers in the same pouch because in life, you cannot have a Seducer without a Panderer, its just how it works, and I also think they are put together but they are guilty of similar sins so their punishment might was well be the same.
ReplyDelete@ the brown man(L for lamothe): I think Dante's description would be, "well, that's what he gets" and I think Virgil's description would be, "Where's the barf bag?"
ReplyDelete@ Dallas(Austin): It is very possible that they may return to the forest, but i think it could go down in a couple ways. 1: After everything, Dante will return to the Forest, but Virgil will not be able to so it will be a sad ending. 2: We will figure out that Dante is actually dead and they will never return to the forest.
ReplyDelete@ Jeanette: The demons are becoming more like my mental image i have of them, mainly because on the cover of my book they are holding whips and other devices that cause pain, but in this layer, it is the first time my mental image has been seen.
ReplyDelete@TheRagingRiver, That was a very valid point, Mark. However, I disagree with the fact that the circles have anything to do with Dante not fainting anymore. He is just getting used to it, like all people adapt to every situation in life.
ReplyDelete@Katelynn I believe that the punnishment they recieve is quite fitting for them. Another appropriate punishment could be something to do with them losing their tounge or mouth or something, because they always flattered and were clever with their speech.
ReplyDelete@Becca See above
@Bridget That is a good point. I believe Virgil went from being a simple idol and mentor of Dante's to them actually becoming "Friends." (I use the term very loosely)
@Margaret This has made me look back on some life choices, but i don't really take all of this to heart. We know this is someone's view, and i think everyone hopes that God will have a bit more mercy than shown in here.
@Everyone I was listening to my itunes while writing this, and the inception theme came on. And i kinda subconciously matched it with the inferno. And it was wicked intense and im pumped up. Just thought id let err-e-body know
@Justine The pouches kind of remind me of a container of sins. Its a mean of keeping one's sins close to them at all times, as if they will never undo, outlive, or be forgiven.
Response to Austin: I think it could be likely that Dante returns to the Dark Forest at the end of his travels through hell if his adventure does end up just being a dream as others have already mentioned.
ReplyDelete@Bridget: I do think Virgil has taken a more serious and deeper role in Dante's life. Dante is more trusting and confident in Virgil and vice versa.
ReplyDelete@Maggie: I really like your question. It did for me, because it made me think wow, I really could get in a lot of trouble for something we consider a minor fault.
@Greg: I think in the distant future there will be some traumatic event that will cause Dante and Virgil to separate and go there separate ways.
@Zach Big Brown: I would use the phrase living Hell, because that is what it is. They are living souls who are facing consequences for their wrong doings.
@Core-Dawg Word. He doesn't sugar coat it. He knows those he admires have sinned and do not recieve special treatment
ReplyDelete@Lyndon Indeed they do
@Joe See above
@Greg I don't know about them being torn apart. They definitly have grown closer, but i think that they will slowly become closer as time goes on
@Shannon I think the panderers and Saducers are pretty similar in the way they've sinned. It would have been easier for Dante to include them together in one circle than splitting them up.
@Zach Brown (Big) "Eternal torture."
@Austin I think that the forest was a one time deal. We've already been told that Dante is attempting to reach Heaven, so i think if He does manage to survive, he will end up there.
@Sleppy Ow Ow! Slep u iz on firezzzzzzz. Ive never actually thought of it like that. Good point. We know from throughout the book that Dante is big on Christianity, so only fitting to have a refernece of Christ here.
@Jeanette Hell has been getting more hellish as we go on. The punnishments become more severe, and the descriptions even more vivid. The demons are steadily becoming more and more terrifying
I think i got everyone...
Response to Maggie: Since reading the Inferno it had has made me look at my life from a differnt perspective. Before I never really considered the overall effects of my actions but now that I have seen the possible consequences I may be more likely to reconsider my ways. I believe that this may have been Dante's intent when writing this.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Zach Brown: I would describe Dante's hell as an abyss of eternal torment.
ReplyDelete(In response to Corey at the top)
ReplyDeleteI agree with you in the fact that maybe if Virgil kept things on a professional basis, then maybe he wouldn't let his guide skills become rusty, therefore leading an effective trip with Dante through Hell. Very good point corey i like it